Discussions about Popmundo Wiki

See also the previous page Discussions about Popomundo Wiki.

• 2008-04-26: I bought a real domain name for this wiki! Give me a shout if something is not working. Feel free to change the game name where needed! – Tindra Åkesson
  • 2008-04-26: Awesome! You're right, making the Events page more comprehensive will only be possible if more people chip in. – Eva Lundhskär
• 2008-05-19: I've started editing a few stuffs here and there, hope it's ok … If you need something specific updated let me know and i'll see if i can do it :> i want you people to make this the best popmundo online resource there is :> – Marsden Slater
  • 2008-05-19: Please keep improving here, that's the wiki spirit! One possible thing to do would be to update the genre pages so that the required skills for the show actions are links to the appropriate pages in the skills namespace. (Even if the actual page does not exist yet.) – Tindra Åkesson
    • 2008-05-20: I'll try … but not today … work got me all tired :> – Marsden Slater
    • 2008-05-21: I've started, but i think stage events should be separate, so that general events can also be included… may i rearrage them and make special pages for stage events? – Marsden Slater
      • 2008-05-21: Yeah, sure! – Tindra Åkesson
  • 2008-05-23: Marsden: While it's great, that community projects are on the start page, it'll stretch the start page even more, if every city starts to list its projects on the main page. I think it would make the start page less crowded, if the project categories were linking to a page, where all the cities and their projects are listed and not on the start page. – Eva Lundhskär
    • 2008-06-03: I think that we should avoid sub-items in the front page lists – Tindra Åkesson

• 2008-06-03: I got permission from Ragnar Forming and Richard Hamster to add the Police Guide and the Newbie FAQ to the wiki. whoot! – Eva Lundhskär.
  • 2008-06-03: Nice! – Tindra Åkesson

• 2008-06-03: Weird stuff linked from the front page:
  • There's a attributes and a talents page in the references, they are basically the same.
    • 2008-08-30: Fixed links and removed talents since you already merged those. – schorsch
  • The show items page would fit under the regular items list.
    • 2008-08-30: Since there was only one item left in show items anyway, I moved that one and removed show items. – schorsch
  • Words and Phrases could be merged with the Mysterious Messages page.
    • 2008-08-31: Pages were merged before, edited Links and removed Words and Phrases. – schorsch
  • people teaching could be removed in favour of the education communities page.
    • 2008-08-31: Done. (Was already merged with education before.) – schorsch
  • articles – what's the use of that? There's not a single thing on it. It'd also be of little use as a It's Pop archive. Since this would mean shifting around huge portions of information and also asking permission of every single author.
  • There is currently a reference about jobs and a guide about Jobs (my mistake, when I created the base salaries list). I merged the job list with the salary list under references, so I guess the “guide” could be deleted.
    • 2008-08-31: Fixed Links and deleted jobs. – schorsch
  • I guess that's it for now. – Eva Lundhskär
    • Eva, you have the eyes of an eagle! I removed articles. (I admit it was not very hard.) You are very welcome to make the wiki less weird! – Tindra Åkesson
      • 2008-06-04: You're welcome. I removed the link to the talents page from the start site in favour of the attributes one (since attributes is the official term). Words and Phrases and mysterious messages have been merged, a link from “people teaching” was moved to the education community page and the people teaching link was removed from the start page. Also removed the job guide from the start page, because I merged it with the jobs under references. In order to make the start page a bit slimmer. I'm not sure if the removed pages are referenced somewhere else. Will tackle that another time. – Eva Lundhskär

• 2008-07-03: I noticed some weirdness about the forward from the old url. When clicking on an old link to a subpage of the wiki (e.g. the Read the first links to Paula's date guide http://popo.2good.nu/guides/paula_de_beer_s_guide_to_hot_dates), then the redirect misses the slash between domain and subpage (or whatsitcalled): e.g.: http://www.popmundowiki.comguides/paula_de_beer_s_guide_to_hot_dates – Eva Lundhskär
  • 2008-07-03: Nice catch. The eagle eyes again? I added a slash in the web server config so it seems to work properly now, right? – Tindra Åkesson
    • Yep, it works. – Eva

• 2008-08-01: Eek, the formatting of community news:2006 and community news:all is broken. What did I mess up? O_o (P.S.: Poor Tindra being wanted for debt and all alone on the graveyard in Berlin. ) – Eva Lundhskär
  • Don't ask me why, but removing the bold from the Community News from other years: text seems to make the 2006 page alright! Do we really need the “all” page since the split in pages for each year? (P.S: Booo! I'm a ghost!) – Tindra Åkesson
    • Weird, that it works at the other pages. The all page is quite handy, when looking for something and not knowing, when it was implemented, but I see, that it's quite huge. (P.S.: eek a ghost! ) – Eva Lundhskär
• 2008-08-01: I upgraded the webserver on the 28th of July but due to some unplanned downtime it wasn't running again until the 29th. Sorry about that! – Tindra Åkesson

• 2008-08-24: A lot of pages seem to be in the wrong places. For example: big_rig_truck (namespace should be items, not itmes) or wastoid (should be in namespace artists, not root). And then there are some artists in the namespace artist, not artists. I would correct them myself, but I do not know how or if it is even possible for me to do so. Help, it is driving me crazy! That is the reason why I hate all kinds of wikis. They are driving me crazy. :( – schorsch
  • 2008-08-24: Welcome to Popmundowiki. :D You can do this by moving the information to the right page. Then remove all text from the old page and save the empty text. With doing this the old page is deleted. Just keep in mind, that these pages might be linked on other pages. – Eva
    • 2008-08-26: Many Wikis show which pages link to a certain other one. I guess this one does not? I believe it is obvious where the pages I mentioned should actually link to though. Broken links should be easy to repair. I have not seen much of this Wiki, so trying to fix those myself would be a bit excessive. – schorsch
      • 2008-08-26: You click the page name on the top left to view the backlinks. Unfortunately not very obvious, I know. – Tindra Åkesson
        • 2008-08-30: How did I miss the big flashing link on the top? :) By the way: I am a bit confused about bright_eyes and bright_eyes. Are those two different bands? Edit: Oh. They just never changed the template. Well, I will remove the one in the wrong namespace then. – schorsch
        • 2008-09-01: This does not seem to work flawlessly. For example: p_l_a_y shows no backlinks, but is definitely linked at least from Vanessa Adams. Or do I miss something here? – schorsch

• 2008-09-01: I noticed that there are two pages for recording studios: recording studio and record studio. I thought about deleting one of them - but: Do we follow the UK English version of Popmundo or the US English version? (UK consistently uses “Recording Studio”, US mostly “Record Studio”.) – schorsch
  • Wow, you've been really busy so far. The Wiki was started long before the UK English version came along and most pages use the US English terms, as far as I can see, so for the sake of uniformity and because most people that play in English use the US English translation of the game (19912 vs. 1629 users), it'd be best to stick to the US English names. – Eva
    • 2008-09-02: Yes, I have been busy indeed. But I am nearly finished with all the madness and then I might be able to actually contribute something. Before that though: Watch me go nuts on pages that have no Backlinks at all - for example: United Cities. Should I move that one to the “communities” and link it from there? And maybe remove those from the Start page, create a proper Communities and have that one amongst the references? Start is crowded anyway. – schorsch
      • 2008-09-02: Sounds good to me. Maybe we can also find a way to make the start page look less crowded, make it clean, while information stays accessible easily at the same time too. – Eva
        • To be honest I am a bit reluctant to restructure the start page after only having registered two days before. And in my opinion it would need to be restructured in a more intuitive way, because currently it is not a start page, but a rater extensive list of items found in the wiki. – schorsch
          • yeah, it needs more intuitive navigation, dunno how it can be achieved though (maybe just linking to the big subcategories with descriptions on the start page to make it less crowded, and put the table of contents of the categories on separate pages? This would require more clicking though and the separation between guide and reference isn't always clear too). – Eva
            • Well, we could start out by doing an “alternative” start page, for example start2.0a, and see if it leads to something worth replacing the current one. (Another question: Is there a specific reason why we use this list for the discussion page? The quoting system seems to be a more natural choice…) – schorsch
              • I dunno, we started with the list and noone ever brought up the quoting. I gave ver 2.0 a kickstart, everyone please give input. – Eva
            • 2008-09-05: I thought about guides and references once more: In my opinion a guide should be some kind of how-to, for example the guide to hot dates. A reference on the other hand would not tell you how to do anything, but might be some kind of list, for example skills or items. That would mean that some items would have to be moved from guides to references, but for most it would at least be clear where they belong. Not all unfortunately.
              • seems like a plan. – Eva
            • 2008-09-08: Nobody objects, I give it a try. – schorsch

• 2008-09-02: Popmundo downtime gave me some time to work on my own page :D - Hamster
  • Me too! – schorsch

Started using the quoting system on this discussion page. Thanks to schorsch for the heads up and the tons of improvements he and Eva Lundhskär have made and is still making to this wiki! A cleaner start page sounds good too! PS. You certainly don't need to keep the “History of Popmundowiki” there! – Tindra Åkesson

2008-09-02: Thank you. “History of Popomundowiki” has its own page now. :)
I like the quoting system because there is not as much indent. – schorsch

2008-09-15: The dreaded items page could need some work. How about getting rid of the booklist and just linking to the alphabetical skill list there? Or would it be more useful to move all categories to subpages anyway? I'll make an items page 2.0a – Eva

2008-09-15: Good idea! IIRC there are a few books names that does not perfectly match the corresponding skill names. – Tindra Åkesson

2008-09-15: You're right, Kamasutra and Basic Lyrics and Poetry come to mind. ugh!! – Eva Lundhskär

2008-09-15: New items page is put into action and the old one moved to old items page for easier reference, in case I forgot something – Eva

20009-02-22: I noticed that most books are described as if they were not items, but skills. At the same time I do not think many books link to the corresponding skills or vice versa. This just does not feel right. – schorsch

2008-09-16: Let's move the new start page to the front! old start page, for easier reference. – Eva

2009-02-10: Since both the items_page_2.0a and start2.0a are main pages now, I am going to remove the 2.0a's. I think they are outdated anyway. – schorsch

2008-10-10: I cannot find any page about city offices (or game authorities for that matter), only the one about mayors, which is kind of hard to find & outdated/wrong if I am not mistaken. If you guys do not want me to include a section in jobs, try and stop me. :) – schorsch

2008-10-12: I won't stop you. :D – Eva

2008-11-11: I am back! At least I hope I am - technical difficulties. And since obviously nobody wanted to do it while I was gone, I now started the aforementioned section. :) – schorsch

2008-10-14: On items: The descriptions are quite a mess, because noone seemed to have taken a look how other people have done it. I suggest sticking to the format of using the ingame item description + more info, like it was done for Cup of Coffee. The tablelayout Veini introduced for the show items might look tidier, but if you got more stuff to add, it's a royal pain in the behind. (Unless there's a trick to do it really fast?) – Eva

2008-10-26: Or even easier like I did for sugar cane now? — Garrett Mason 2008/10/26 21:20

2008-10-26: If you agree on a format I can arrange so that all pages in the items namespace will start out like that, just like for artists and people. Same for other namespaces of course, and the aforementioned templates might need improvement too… – Tindra Åkesson

2009-02-10: Whoops, I did not notice there already was a discussion about namespace templates… As mentioned below, I have updated the artists and people ones. But it is almost 4 months, and there is still none for items? How about simply starting one, without agreeing on a format before? After all it is a wiki, it is supposed to be work in progress. – schorsch
2009-02-17: Well, I will start an items-template now. I have never created an items-page myself, so I probably should not be the one doing this, but still. – schorsch

2009-02-17: Looks ok to me, apart from the “Please use this as an artist template.” blooper – Eva Lundhskär

Maybe it's a good idea to place the max salary of each city. http://www.popmundowiki.com/jobs Here you can see the base salary. Make another table witch each city and the % instead of the 100. for example London: 525%, Amsterdam 500%, Paris 300%. Then they can calculate themselves how many it is for each job.

2008-10-30: Max salary changes all the time and who's going to keep track on that all the time, when people don't even tend to their city's pages. ;) So it'd be more accurate if people check on it themselves in the city details, as it's suggested on the base salary list. – Eva

US English or UK English? better stick to one language version. Though as long as US English has no translators being active I prefer the UK English version. — Garrett Mason 2008/11/22 01:58

US English; see the 2008-09-01 discussion above. The reason that “US English” has no translators is probably that it is the language all other versions are translated from… — Tindra Åkesson 2008/11/22 10:34

2009-01-13: Apparently UK English is now the master tongue version the translators translate from (judging from comments of german translators), the US English version also gets translated from UK English. Thing is, that many pages already have US english names (e.g. Garbage dump instead of Rubbish dump, Daycare instead of Nursery School, Airplane instead of Aeroplane, etc), since that's how it was before the translations got split up. So should the wiki be in the master tongue or in US English for the convenience of not having to check on each page if they got the correct name to avoid mix-ups? – Eva Lundhskär

2009-01-16: It seems to me that even if this is true, it only shows that the master tongue can be changed at any time. In my opinion we should stick with US English as long as there are ten times as many users, if we are not prepared to change this back and forth. – schorsch

2009-01-20: Good point about the amounts of users. Good that we don't need to change anything around. :D – Eva

2009-01-22: I agree, it's a very good point. I believe it was first made by one “eval”, see discussions revision 2008/09/01 15:54. :P – schorsch

2008-12-21: Network issues since around 20:00 CET yesterday. I've implemented a workaround, but things might run a bit slower. — Tindra Åkesson 2008/12/21 12:11

who is skunkoholika? And why has she/he removed the Rooster (Red) from the animals list? — Garrett Mason 2008/12/24 02:51

2009-02-04: I took the liberty of changing the artists and people template in order to remind people to add links in the artists and people section respectively.
And about those templates - I think that the artists template should be depersonalised - I have been confused several times when people left some of the Ze Evil Gnömes' information in their newly created page. I will do that if nobody minds. – schorsch

2009-02-04: I'd say go ahead to prevent more Gnöme confusion. . – Eva

2009-02-05: I went ahead, but I am too damn stupid to use replacement patterns. At least I did not get the hang of how strftime is supposed to be used. I still believe the current artists template is an improvement. :) – schorsch

2009-02-05: I took the liberty to start working on a newbie guide. If you want things in there PM in popmundo or here. –Arielle Soulat
Finished for the moment please feel free to edit/spelcheck!

2009-02-06: Good start, Arielle! Some things (not meant to offend you):
* I think you might want to add, that you as the author are a newbie yourself and that there is no definite way to start out as a newb (though how you sketched it out, is how I'd mostly suggest it to a newb as well).
* you are a bit longwinded and sidetracking sometimes, so cutting out some rambling might not hurt to keep the impatient reader's attention. (though I like the style it's written in! ) I did some changeing, but it still need polish
* Don't completely dismiss charm. The band leader needs charm, when talking to the media and media talk got quite important in the last months. Also you could suggest boosting ticket sales for the first show with a little media talk session (and asking the club owner for a higher artist cut to get more money out of it ;)).
* “As a newbie you should look for affordable jam places.” affordable isn't always the best, it should be affordable and of as good quality as possible, to save time and mood at jam session. ;)
* Going on tour right after the first gig seems a bit rushed to me. There's no hurting in suggesting playing several gigs in the hometown, while working on both instrument skills. But this is a matter, where opinions are quite diverse.
* Suggesting to work on skills, while going on tour, while not pointing out ways to keep mood up is a bit dangerous. Travelling by plane and playing worse shows can be quite a strain on mood. You might want to add a link to the mood and health FAQ at the part about learning the first skills.
* You seem to dismiss hitchhiking completely, while this is a very cheap way to get around (though time consuming), especially if a tour is planned along the travel routes and their first tour consists of visiting the neighbour cities.
– Eva updated by Arielle Soulat on 2009-02-18
2009-02-10: I hope you do not mind me moving your guide from newbie_guide to newbie_guide, where the other guides are located too. Moreover, I have even boldly moved your character's page from arielle to Arielle Soulat. That way you do not have to use title texts anymore… I seem to have become this wiki's wikinazi. Don't mind me. :( – schorsch No problem
2009-04-16: I have made an update in the guide. I change the going on tour part. I now (with more experience) understand Eva's earlier comments. ciao Arielle Soulat
2009-08-18: Made some new updates: - Attand class included + Recoring and realeasing singles. by Arielle Soulat (feel free to check and edit content and or gramar)

2009-02-13: At least the wiki's much tidier since you started to be busy here. Speaking of tidying… The reference page- should it continue to be sorted alphabetically or would it make more sense to find reasonable categories to sort by? – Eva

2009-02-17: I don't know. It is not easy finding reasonable categories. I have troubles distinguishing guides from references as it is (e.g. recipes, which clearly started out as a guide, but mainly seems to be a list of some sort now, which I would rather call a reference).
As for the reference page, the only categories I was able to think of were player created content (e.g. artists, communities, companies, tours) vs. dev created content (e.g. items, jobs, locales) - but in the end this would probably be even worse than distinguishing guides and references. – schorsch

2009-02-17: Yeah, that's the problem, so I guess we just have to stick with the alphabetized list.

2009-02-22: Not necessarily. Let's keep it in mind, maybe somebody comes up with something reasonable. – schorsch

Seperating the recipes list from the guide might be quite a bit of work with changing all the subpages, but it'd make more sense than having them in the guides? – Eva Lundhskär

2009-02-22: But it is the kind of work I like to do. *cleaning* I will start as soon as I have time. – schorsch

Sorry for the downtime today, there is/was apparantly an issue with the network provider (complain on http://www.blixtvik.se/ . I really need to move this site to my new server! — Tindra Åkesson 2009/02/07 19:54

Just out of interest, how many hits does the wiki get per day these days? – Eva 2009/02/10/ 00:4

I hadn't checked the numbers for a long while. Around 350 visits each day it seem! Not too bad! — Tindra Åkesson 2009/02/13 18:44

What has happened with the recipes? I am pretty sure that I have added all distillation recipes, and many cigar recipes, they are all deleted… I won't continue to update the list, if I need to expect that one day all the work is gone for no obvious reason… Garrett Mason

They are still here. As mentioned a few lines above (2009/02/22), I have started moving recipes from guides:recipes:some_recipe to recipes:some_recipe. I am stuck in the middle of Cigar Making though, so not all recipes are linked from recipes. You can still find them via guides:recipes though. – schorsch 2009/03/14
I finished moving distillation recipes now; you will notice that you can find them now when looking at both recipes and guides:recipes. You should also note that you can easily restore old revisions of wiki-pages if they ever get deleted. This wiki normally stores all changes (as does every other wiki i know). – schorsch 2009/03/20

2009-09-14: Sorry for directing popmundowiki.com to the wrong site for a while! — Tindra Åkesson 2009/09/14 09:57

2009-10-07: Added a seperate page for businesses (locales) for those that wish to put up some history about a specific businesses as opposed to a company. Encourage folks to seperate companies from businesses in the future. — Danny Harris

2009-10-16: On this wiki's C&P policy: In the game forum this questions have arisen in context with transfering information from one wiki to another because people think our little wiki here might have the most informtion but is ugly. : Alexandra Hudson (1238369.13)“Since both are wikis, it should be legal to copy the content from one wiki to the other?”
Alanas Anikonis (1238369.14) “Well I've been asking myself that question too.
I have no idea under what license we write into either wiki.
In theory we should just be happy to have free flow of information, and if nobody has the immediate need to take credit for their contribution, free copying should be encouraged,

We need clear rules for this :)”
– Eva Lundhskär

2009-10-20: It is definitely not as easy as “Since both are wikis […] legal to copy”. It works like that with Wikipedia, since as an author you agree to publish your writing under a Creative Commons License - and even when copying a Wikipedia article you have to attribute the work as specified by the original author. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_3.0_Unported_License
Or is there a specific License for text around here too? I have never seen one.
All that said, I doubt that there is any need to follow a strictly legal procedure with popmundowiki:
Much of the content is copy-pasted from Popmundo anyway - which means that popmundowiki has a questionable status. At least I have never noticed Popmundo allowing copy-pasting of their content. Content that is not copied itself are howtos and artist or character pages. It seems to me that all of those where written with the intention of sharing it freely anyway. That is only my guess though. Since my own contributions are rather sparse, I have no idea how a real author would feel about it.
By the way: I very much prefer this wiki. I hope people do not decide to migrate to the other one. – schorsch

Cut&paste of wiki content is really lame, but anyway if this wiki is ugly we could do something about it! Tell me you prefer another wiki system (this is Dokuwiki, Wikipedia uses MediaWiki, etc) or if you would like to create a new template for the wiki. — Tindra Åkesson 2009/10/28 11:25

The major gripe about this wiki seems to be that most people are used to the MediaWiki style and that's why they find the dokuwiki unappealing. I'm not sure if it's also about the syntax, but it's not that different? Can it even be converted without major work? — Eva Lundhskär 2009/11/01 15:30

Maybe there is some existing conversion script I could use. If not I need to figure out how to convert he hiearchial structure and then could probably convert 90% of all markup. Pictures might need to be uploaded again though, etc. — Tindra Åkesson 2009/11/01 18:18

There are conversion scripts outthere, but they don't seem to work completely. But maybe it's not really necessary to convert the code and the readability could get more simply improved by tweaking the layout of the wiki to less broad lines, so the eyes don't get bored of reading too fast? (dunno if that makes sense, I'm not good at explaining) — Eva Lundhskär 2009/11/04 13:40

2009-11-04: If people want a switch I'm sure I can automate most of the conversion in on way or another but there will be manual work too. Wide lines are no good reading, that's true. The DokuWiki theme is probably very tweakable but I don't have time to mess with it… — Tindra Åkesson 2009/11/04 20:07

2009-11-05: well there are templates… If we switched to MediaWiki, it'd make the wikis less distinguishable and there doesn't seem many people interested the whole issue after all (at least there wasn't much feedback in the thread about conversion. Some replied that they don't really care because they only use it to archive their band and character history). *shrugs* — Eva Lundhskär 2009/11/05 01:39

2009-12-15: Checked out the templates. One (monobook) looks almost exactly like a MediaWiki, so there definitely is no point in migrating. Dokubook looks similar too. Personally I still prefer the look of this wiki - sidebars might be a good idea though. – schorsch

2009-10-28: Unplanned downtime again Moved wiki to the new server! Ads temporarily disabled. — Tindra Åkesson 2009/10/28 11:09

2009-10-29: DokuWiki is upgraded too. It's now possible to select a license and it defaults to Public Domain. What license should we use on this wiki? Maybe Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License like Wikipedia? — Tindra Åkesson 2009/10/29 08:44

2009-10-30: Sounds like a good idea. –schorsch

2009-11-04: I changed license. Complaints here — Tindra Åkesson 2009/11/04 20:07

no complaint! Eva Lundhskär 2009/11/05 01:39

2009-12-15: I noticed that old versions get deleted now, and I do not think this happened before. I do not mind, since it seems only revisions older than 2 months are missing. I hope this works as planned though, since I would hate to see parts of the wiki vanish? – schorsch

2010-01-13: I moved alexandria_mcclelland and rebels_without_a_cause to the people and artists namespace respectively. But shortly after “rockrebel” restored the original versions. If you read this, could you please explain your reasons, rockrebel? - This is why I do in fact miss the discussion for each page that MediaWiki provides… Maybe I should have left a more detailed comment about moving at the original pages instead of completely deleting them and only mentioning the move in the summary? – schorsch

schorsch, you did correct in moving the pages in the first place, but as you say we may need to leave a note when we move pages. I'll try to remember this as a plus for MediaWiki as well. — Tindra Åkesson 2010/01/14 08:18

2010-02-15: Is there any of the redirect plugins installed? If not, they would come in handy for name changes, e.g. erin_guiry=erin_jericho, where at the moment two separate (but almost identical) pages exist. Edit: Tried at the playground, none of those plugins is installed. – schorsch

2010-02-15: Excellent idea! Try again now — Tindra Åkesson 2010/02/15 09:34

2010-02-15: Wheee! Thank you very much.

For future reference: The page redirector plugin was installed. Use:

~~REDIRECT>namespace:page~~

Well, I guess now there is some cleaning up to do. Again. :) – schorsch

And as an added bonus, this may help with the problem of moved pages I addressed above. Instead of leaving exhaustive explanations, we can leave a redirection link. I did not even think of this before. :D – schorsch

2010-05-30: Hello Administrator? Can it be configured that the list of recent changes will track back some more recent changes, currently there are only 20 changes shown. See also: http://www.dokuwiki.org/config:recent — Garrett Mason 2010/05/30 08:24